Betalogue

6 Responses to “New “Apple Peel” column at Applelust.com”

1. vaag says:
   October 18th, 2003 at Oct 18, 03 | 10:17 pm

   >The first problem here is that, unless you are using Mac OS X’s full-keyboard
   >access feature , you cannot access this “New Folder” button without using the >mouse.

   Here we go again. So far I haven’t heard any substantial argument why you wouldn’t use its full capacity all the time. But anyway, your choice, with the save dialog open using control-F7 you can on the fly toggle between the two modes. So you can access this button without using the mouse.

   >Worse still, once youíve invoked the “New Folder” dialog and typed in the name
   >for your new folder, pressing the Return key fails to trigger the “Create” button
   >as it normally should (since the “Create” button is in pulsating blue), because of a
   >bug in Mac OS X

   Have you tried this yourself lately (10.2.8)?

   Now to Default Folder. Of course most of your ‘real world examples’ do make sense and DF surely will deliver. I have no doubts. But I do not bother to even try!
   Not because I think that you are exaggerating -which I think you do- in explaning the difficulty of finding a particular folder/document in a open/save dialog. As if your file system is a total mess with this one folder possibly all over place; not because some of your examples I myself could do with Ittec -which I do-, that I use as an ‘enhancement utility’ to navigate and move things around and a lot more; not because I think Panther will address some of your griefs -which I think it will- and that’s only one week to go; but most and for all because of the thing you left out of your review: Default Folder’s price!! It’s 35 American dollars – a ridiculous amount of money for just an open/save dialog utility.

2. Pierre Igot says:
   October 18th, 2003 at Oct 18, 03 | 10:35 pm

   Having to type ctrl-F7, then space, then ctrl-F7 again (because I don’t want the feature on all the time) kind of defeats the purpose of having a keyboard shortcut in the first place.

   I don’t want FKA on all the time because most of the time I have no need to go to all those places that the tab key goes to when it is on. So I waste my time tabbing back and forth just to go to the two places I am interested in, i.e. the name field and the columns display.

   I’ve just tried the “Create” folder in 10.2.8, and it still doesn’t work.

   I don’t have any problems with DFX’s price, given the convenience it has provided reliably throughout all these years. Software pricing is a tricky issue, as any independent developer of small utilities such as DFX will tell you. I’m sure Jon has weighed the pros and cons of it. Ultimately it’s his decision, and I am not really in any position to tell him whether it should be $15, $20 or $40.

   To me, DFX is well worth $35. (And the upgrade pricing is much more reasonable too.) I have spent more money on much less valuable software over the years.

   But then, it’s just my opinion :).

3. vaag says:
   October 19th, 2003 at Oct 19, 03 | 12:43 am

   >So I waste my time tabbing back and forth just to go to the two places I am
   >interested in, i.e. the name field and the columns display.

   So, most of the time you only want to toggle between those two field, and Apple gives you this option, and at the same time you are complaining that you cannot get to the add folder button from the keyboard, which you can, but then again it’s too complicated… I think, as with your review, you are exaggerating.

   >Iíve just tried the “Create” folder in 10.2.8, and it still doesnít work

   It does work with me (with all possible full keyboard prefpane configurations tested).

4. Pierre Igot says:
   October 20th, 2003 at Oct 20, 03 | 5:08 am

   I am afraid you are not reading carefully enough.

   I don’t want to use FKA because I only want to toggle between the file name field and the columns in the MAIN save as dialog.

   What does not work is the “Create” button in the SECONDARY dialog when you click on “New Folder” in the main dialog. I COULD activate the FKA just when I am in that secondary dialog, but that would mean three keyboard strokes for just one button.
   (ctrl-F7 + space + ctrl-F7, since I don’t want FKA in the main dialog)

   The bottom-line is that the Return key for the “Create” button doesn’t work when FKA is off, and it should, because it’s the convention in dialog boxes when FKA is off: Return activates the default button (the one that’s in pulsating blue).

   It’s pretty basic stuff I am talking about here.

   I don’t know why it works for you (if it does), It has never worked for me. (And I am not the only one.)

5. vaag says:
   October 20th, 2003 at Oct 20, 03 | 5:54 pm

   >I am afraid you are not reading carefully enough.
   >[…] (if it does)

   Please, I find this almost insulting. In general, I read your stuff carefully, as is also the case this time. If I didn’t I really would not even bother to comment. And I’m not making things up!

   >I donít want to use FKA because I only want to toggle between the file name field
   >and the columns in the MAIN save as dialog.

   and in the review you wrote:

   >The first problem here is that, unless you are using Mac OS Xís full-keyboard access
   >feature, you cannot access this “New Folder” button without using the mouse. Worse
   >still,[…]

   The problem I have here, is that you limit yourself by choice and at the same time complain about not being able to access the ‘New folder’ button using the mouse, when infact by checking the prefpane’s FKA checkbox ·nd choosing the limited toggle choice radio button in the same prefpane you basically will have the setup that you prefer, but for this once in a while situation that you’d want to access more options it wÌll give you this particular possibility (with ctrl-F7), all without using the mouse; further by writing it out (‘ctrl-F7 + space + ctrl-F7’) you suggest as if this all is such a hassle. If I want to write ‘Ô’ or ‘·’ I have to type ‘option-u + i’ or ‘option-e + a’. The whole day long I have to use all kinds of combinations, and that’s really no hassle at all. Just an automatism.
   I’m just glad that at least I c·n toggle between these two keyboard access states.

   >The bottom-line is that the Return key for the “Create” button doesnít work when
   >FKA is off

   When I commented before:
   >Have you tried this yourself lately (10.2.8)?
   I tried to tell you that 1. somewhere in the past it didn’t work with me either; 2. it does work now; and 3. it does work since my 10.2.8-update. Now, I could inform you further: that I used the 10.2.8 combo update and that I’ve tested it with a lot of my apps, but not with Word (that I don’t use) – maybe these make a difference.
   But the bottom-line now for me is, that if I trigger the ‘New Folder’ button, I simply can type the name of the folder and with return go back to the primary save dialog window with this new folder highlighted. In this respect there is no different behaviour between all the possible FKA configurations (e.g. checked or not, radio button marked or not).

6. Pierre Igot says:
   October 22nd, 2003 at Oct 22, 03 | 1:26 am

   Sorry, didn’t mean to insult you. I just feel that I am not really being understood on this particular issue. I guess we need to break things down further to clarify things.

   I agree that my complaint about the inability to access the “New Folder” in my Apple Peel column confuses the issue, since it’s another problem. But I didn’t mention it here in these blog entry comments, so I wasn’t referring to this problem at any point here.

   Without going into all the details again, I think you’ll agree that it’s not normal that the “Create” button in the New Folder sub-dialog doesn’t work with the Return or Enter key (with FKA off) since it’s in pulsating blue.

   Now, I’ve just done some more testing, and there IS a change: it’s now working in Cocoa applications (Safari, Camino, etc.) but not in Carbon applications (Explorer, Word, iTunes, etc.)!

   So that’s a change. But it’s still not fixed (in Carbon applications).

   As for the FKA mode, the problem is that if you turn it on, you have to cycle through all UI items. I realize that it’s not easy to please everyone, but that’s too many tabs and shift-tabs for me in most cases, including when I need to access the “New Folder” button. A better solution for power users would probably be to provide users with user-definable keyboard shortcuts that work system-wide. Maybe in the future? (I vaguely remember reading something about it as a possible thing in OS X.)

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