Comments on: Pages 3.0: The problem with the lack of sub-pixel anti-aliasing is that we have to live (and work) with it today http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/ Notes from an unfinished world… Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:48:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: AlanY http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7778 AlanY Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:35:31 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7778 Here's a link to some models of that style of monitor if you're interested: http://www.radiforce.com/en/products/mpim.html As a bonus, most have very uniform backlights and wide viewing angles, which would also contribute to text readability. Unfortunately only one model is vaguely affordable ($2300) and its resolution isn't all that dense, but some of the intermediate models could make sense as business expenses for professional writers, or would be great to buy used. Here’s a link to some models of that style of monitor if you’re interested:
http://www.radiforce.com/en/products/mpim.html
As a bonus, most have very uniform backlights and wide viewing angles, which would also contribute to text readability. Unfortunately only one model is vaguely affordable ($2300) and its resolution isn’t all that dense, but some of the intermediate models could make sense as business expenses for professional writers, or would be great to buy used.

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7777 Pierre Igot Thu, 06 Dec 2007 18:54:37 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7777 Never seen those. But if the pixel density is higher, the color/greyscale issue becomes irrelevant. With high enough pixel density, you don't need sub-pixel anti-aliasing at all. Never seen those. But if the pixel density is higher, the color/greyscale issue becomes irrelevant. With high enough pixel density, you don’t need sub-pixel anti-aliasing at all.

]]> By: AlanY http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7775 AlanY Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:29:50 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7775 For editing documents I've always toyed with idea of picking up one of those greyscale LCD monitors they use in radiology for viewing x-rays. Rather than having color subpixels, there are only greyscale pixels. Naturally the pixel density is higher. It seems like this would be a fantastic solution for working with documents without the compromises of sub-pixel rendering. For editing documents I’ve always toyed with idea of picking up one of those greyscale LCD monitors they use in radiology for viewing x-rays. Rather than having color subpixels, there are only greyscale pixels. Naturally the pixel density is higher. It seems like this would be a fantastic solution for working with documents without the compromises of sub-pixel rendering.

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7771 Pierre Igot Thu, 06 Dec 2007 13:38:31 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7771 Yes, a higher zoom setting obviously makes a big difference and makes the font smoothing less important. As for higher screen resolutions, I suspect it will take a few more years still. We seem to have reached some kind of plateau right now. They have higher resolutions in the smaller devices, but the big screens are still stuck at the same level. Yes, a higher zoom setting obviously makes a big difference and makes the font smoothing less important.

As for higher screen resolutions, I suspect it will take a few more years still. We seem to have reached some kind of plateau right now. They have higher resolutions in the smaller devices, but the big screens are still stuck at the same level.

]]> By: Warren Beck http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7769 Warren Beck Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:42:56 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7769 I agree with you that the "Standard" mode looks "thinner." Right now, I'm working with the "Standard" mode on my Apple Cinema displays, and using my working distance (roughly an arm's length; maybe 1 m) and my reading glasses, the images of small text are about the same in sharpness (maybe for me this should be read as "fuzzyness") are equivalent in sharpness in the two modes. However, I see your point that the display is darker (or more contrasty) in the sub-pixel mode even though it might be a little fuzzier if I lean in close to the monitor. The other thing I should note is that I tend to work (editing manuscripts) with text at 200% zoom in Pages and in Wolfram's Publicon. Here it is clear that even with sans serif typefaces, it doesn't really matter what mode of antialiasing is being used—the text just looks better with antialiasing on, a lot better. So, I guess I agree with you that in certain situations the sub-pixel antialiasing produces a better image, if more contrast is what you want. I think that I prefer sharpness, again perhaps because of my vision and choice working distance. This may be especially because I use mathematical equations, which have lots of different characters and different type sizes (superscripts, subscripts) in a dense arrangement sometimes. It would be better if we had 144 pixel/inch displays that operate effectively at 200% zoom with respect to the old Apple scaling of 72 dots/inch so that we'd get true WYSYWYG again. If we had 288 pixel/inch, like the old laser printers, we could forget this whole problem. Perhaps by next year? I agree with you that the “Standard” mode looks “thinner.” Right now, I’m working with the “Standard” mode on my Apple Cinema displays, and using my working distance (roughly an arm’s length; maybe 1 m) and my reading glasses, the images of small text are about the same in sharpness (maybe for me this should be read as “fuzzyness”) are equivalent in sharpness in the two modes. However, I see your point that the display is darker (or more contrasty) in the sub-pixel mode even though it might be a little fuzzier if I lean in close to the monitor.

The other thing I should note is that I tend to work (editing manuscripts) with text at 200% zoom in Pages and in Wolfram’s Publicon. Here it is clear that even with sans serif typefaces, it doesn’t really matter what mode of antialiasing is being used—the text just looks better with antialiasing on, a lot better.

So, I guess I agree with you that in certain situations the sub-pixel antialiasing produces a better image, if more contrast is what you want. I think that I prefer sharpness, again perhaps because of my vision and choice working distance. This may be especially because I use mathematical equations, which have lots of different characters and different type sizes (superscripts, subscripts) in a dense arrangement sometimes.

It would be better if we had 144 pixel/inch displays that operate effectively at 200% zoom with respect to the old Apple scaling of 72 dots/inch so that we’d get true WYSYWYG again. If we had 288 pixel/inch, like the old laser printers, we could forget this whole problem. Perhaps by next year?

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7768 Pierre Igot Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:16:09 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7768 I think Sven S.-Porst does a good job of providing pictures that illustrate the difference. To my eyes, standard anti-aliased text just looks too "thin." There's not enough black/white contrast. It is obviously not a deal-breaker (I am still using Pages quite a bit), but it's disappointing not to have the same font rendering quality in Pages as in other Mac OS X applications. I'd be curious to see what your feelings are if you change the "Font smoothing style" setting to "Standard - Best for CRT" in the Appearance pref pane. This will change the font rendering to standard anti-aliasing throughout the Mac OS X environment. Do you still feel the same way? I think Sven S.-Porst does a good job of providing pictures that illustrate the difference. To my eyes, standard anti-aliased text just looks too “thin.” There’s not enough black/white contrast. It is obviously not a deal-breaker (I am still using Pages quite a bit), but it’s disappointing not to have the same font rendering quality in Pages as in other Mac OS X applications.

I’d be curious to see what your feelings are if you change the “Font smoothing style” setting to “Standard – Best for CRT” in the Appearance pref pane. This will change the font rendering to standard anti-aliasing throughout the Mac OS X environment. Do you still feel the same way?

]]> By: Warren Beck http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/comment-page-1/#comment-7767 Warren Beck Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:54:17 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/12/04/pages-30-the-problem-with-the-lack-of-sub-pixel-anti-aliasing-is-that-we-have-to-live-and-work-with-it-today/#comment-7767 I think that it is debatable whether sub-pixel anti-aliasing produces a better image. To my eye, the sharpness obtained by this method is heterogeneous; it depends on the typeface and further it depends on the glyph. At far field, sitting back from the monitor at my normal working distance, the sharpness from the standard anti-aliasing is comparable. Perhaps my eyes are not as good as yours, though. I think that it is debatable whether sub-pixel anti-aliasing produces a better image. To my eye, the sharpness obtained by this method is heterogeneous; it depends on the typeface and further it depends on the glyph.

At far field, sitting back from the monitor at my normal working distance, the sharpness from the standard anti-aliasing is comparable. Perhaps my eyes are not as good as yours, though.

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