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	<title>Comments on: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard): Ejecting disk images still a hit-or-miss proposition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/</link>
	<description>Notes from an unfinished world…</description>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7621</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7621</guid>
		<description>With the hint mentioned above to restart the finder and then eject the mounted images does the trick. I have oft images that will not eject.

So it&#039;s option click finder in the dock. Choose relaunch. Then you are able to eject every image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the hint mentioned above to restart the finder and then eject the mounted images does the trick. I have oft images that will not eject.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s option click finder in the dock. Choose relaunch. Then you are able to eject every image.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7589</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7589</guid>
		<description>sjk: If you look at the behaviour in the Force Quit dialog box, you&#039;ll see that the button changes from &quot;Force Quit&quot; to &quot;Relaunch&quot; when you select the Finder in the list. So I suspect that &quot;Relaunch&quot; is indeed the same as a Force Quit, and not as a regular Quit. It would also be consistent with the behaviour of other application icons in the Dock. The difference between &quot;Relaunch&quot; and &quot;Force Quit&quot; is simply that, in the case of the Finder, the Force Quit is immediately followed by an automatic relaunch of the application.

The ultimate test is to check the state of you Finder windows before and after a Relaunch. If you change the state of your windows just prior to the Relaunch and then Relaunch and the state is not exactly the same as it was before the Relaunch, then it confirms that a Relaunch does not save the state, and that the Finder has reverted to the last saved state instead.

One can only assume that other normal Finder-quitting procedures (cache clearing, for example) are also followed when quitting it, whereas they are not applied when relaunching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sjk: If you look at the behaviour in the Force Quit dialog box, you&#8217;ll see that the button changes from &#8220;Force Quit&#8221; to &#8220;Relaunch&#8221; when you select the Finder in the list. So I suspect that &#8220;Relaunch&#8221; is indeed the same as a Force Quit, and not as a regular Quit. It would also be consistent with the behaviour of other application icons in the Dock. The difference between &#8220;Relaunch&#8221; and &#8220;Force Quit&#8221; is simply that, in the case of the Finder, the Force Quit is immediately followed by an automatic relaunch of the application.</p>
<p>The ultimate test is to check the state of you Finder windows before and after a Relaunch. If you change the state of your windows just prior to the Relaunch and then Relaunch and the state is not exactly the same as it was before the Relaunch, then it confirms that a Relaunch does not save the state, and that the Finder has reverted to the last saved state instead.</p>
<p>One can only assume that other normal Finder-quitting procedures (cache clearing, for example) are also followed when quitting it, whereas they are not applied when relaunching.</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7588</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7588</guid>
		<description>Dan, your reply snuck in before I&#039;d finished mine.  Adding a Quit menu item to Finder is definitely possible in 10.3, and I may have temporarily enabled it further back in 10.2 or even 10.1 using TinkerTool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, your reply snuck in before I&#8217;d finished mine.  Adding a Quit menu item to Finder is definitely possible in 10.3, and I may have temporarily enabled it further back in 10.2 or even 10.1 using TinkerTool.</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7587</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7587</guid>
		<description>My normal method for relaunching Finder is to option-click its Dock icon and select Relaunch.  Maybe that differs from using Quit Process in Activity Monitor (thanks for the suggestion) and/or running &quot;killall Finder&quot; in Terminal (with a default SIGTERM signal) and/or using AppleScript?  I really should do some comparisons of all those.  On occasions when Force Quit is necessary it usually means other concerns supersede what Finder state will/won&#039;t be saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My normal method for relaunching Finder is to option-click its Dock icon and select Relaunch.  Maybe that differs from using Quit Process in Activity Monitor (thanks for the suggestion) and/or running &#8220;killall Finder&#8221; in Terminal (with a default SIGTERM signal) and/or using AppleScript?  I really should do some comparisons of all those.  On occasions when Force Quit is necessary it usually means other concerns supersede what Finder state will/won&#8217;t be saved.</p>
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		<title>By: danridley</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7586</link>
		<dc:creator>danridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7586</guid>
		<description>You can also add a Quit menu to Finder quite easily -- &quot;defaults write com.apple.finder QuitMenuItem 1&quot;. (Remove it again, if for some reason you want to, with &quot;defaults delete com.apple.finder QuitMenuItem&quot;.) 

Then you can just quit Finder with Command-Q, like any other application; and relaunch from the Dock or QuickSilver/LaunchBar/Spotlight.

Works in Tiger and Leopard, don&#039;t know about pre-Tiger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can also add a Quit menu to Finder quite easily &#8212; &#8220;defaults write com.apple.finder QuitMenuItem 1&#8243;. (Remove it again, if for some reason you want to, with &#8220;defaults delete com.apple.finder QuitMenuItem&#8221;.) </p>
<p>Then you can just quit Finder with Command-Q, like any other application; and relaunch from the Dock or QuickSilver/LaunchBar/Spotlight.</p>
<p>Works in Tiger and Leopard, don&#8217;t know about pre-Tiger.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7583</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7583</guid>
		<description>sjk: Don&#039;t know if you are aware of this, but with Activity Monitor you can actually quit (and relaunch) the Finder without force-quitting it. Just quitting the Finder with AM saves your current workspace (open Finder windows, etc.), so I tend to suspect that it is a regular quitting process just like the one Mac OS uses when restarting, and that it clears caches as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sjk: Don&#8217;t know if you are aware of this, but with Activity Monitor you can actually quit (and relaunch) the Finder without force-quitting it. Just quitting the Finder with AM saves your current workspace (open Finder windows, etc.), so I tend to suspect that it is a regular quitting process just like the one Mac OS uses when restarting, and that it clears caches as well.</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7580</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7580</guid>
		<description>I minimize Finder relaunching whenever possible because of unsaved cache behaviors I&#039;ve noticed and vaguely remember reading about.

Thanks for checking on that Error -8058 Duplicate bug in 10.5&#039;s Finder.  Glad to know it&#039;s apparently fixed because before 10.4 the Command-D shortcut had been so convenient for cloning the content of mounted disk image volumes.  Still thinking of ways to best handle the locked .HFS+ Private Directory Data^M directories in them.  So far I&#039;ve got Hazel monitoring my ~/.Trash folder to unlock them when they show up there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I minimize Finder relaunching whenever possible because of unsaved cache behaviors I&#8217;ve noticed and vaguely remember reading about.</p>
<p>Thanks for checking on that Error -8058 Duplicate bug in 10.5&#8242;s Finder.  Glad to know it&#8217;s apparently fixed because before 10.4 the Command-D shortcut had been so convenient for cloning the content of mounted disk image volumes.  Still thinking of ways to best handle the locked .HFS+ Private Directory Data^M directories in them.  So far I&#8217;ve got Hazel monitoring my ~/.Trash folder to unlock them when they show up there.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7579</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 13:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7579</guid>
		<description>sjk: I have used the Finder relaunch workaround in the past. I did not in this particular case, but it is indeed part of my arsenal (and I agree that Finder flakiness is probably part of the reason for these disk unmounting problems).

FWIW, I cannot reproduce the Error -8058 problem on my machine. 10.5&#039;s Finder correctly duplicates the mounted disk image by creating a folder with the same name and contents, and things can be unmounted/trashed without difficulty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sjk: I have used the Finder relaunch workaround in the past. I did not in this particular case, but it is indeed part of my arsenal (and I agree that Finder flakiness is probably part of the reason for these disk unmounting problems).</p>
<p>FWIW, I cannot reproduce the Error -8058 problem on my machine. 10.5&#8242;s Finder correctly duplicates the mounted disk image by creating a folder with the same name and contents, and things can be unmounted/trashed without difficulty.</p>
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		<title>By: sjk</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7577</link>
		<dc:creator>sjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7577</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I ended up launching Disk Utility and using the “Eject” button in that application.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Not that it&#039;s a better workaround, but have you tried relaunching Finder and checked if you could eject (unmount, deattach) the disk image volume afterwards?   I&#039;m curious is because it reminded me of this bug that crept into 10.4:

&lt;i&gt;Duplicate (command-D) in Finder generates error -8058 when attempting to duplicate certain items.  Example: mount a disk image, select its desktop icon, and duplicate it.  Error.  And the volume won&#039;t unmount until Finder is relaunched.&lt;/i&gt;

Haven&#039;t checked if that&#039;s fixed in 10.5 since I&#039;m not running it yet.

And the new locked, hidden .HFS+ Private Directory Data^M (yes, with a trailing Control-M) directory in the root of a mounted 10.5 disk image volume can cause trouble if you copy the top-level directory (e.g. by Option-click dragging its Desktop icon somewhere, or Command-D to Duplicate it if that works again).  I discovered that new-in-10.5 directory when its locked state was keeping Trash from being emptied.  Also noticed the new .fseventsd directory but since its unlocked it&#039;s not causing problems like the other one can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I ended up launching Disk Utility and using the “Eject” button in that application.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not that it&#8217;s a better workaround, but have you tried relaunching Finder and checked if you could eject (unmount, deattach) the disk image volume afterwards?   I&#8217;m curious is because it reminded me of this bug that crept into 10.4:</p>
<p><i>Duplicate (command-D) in Finder generates error -8058 when attempting to duplicate certain items.  Example: mount a disk image, select its desktop icon, and duplicate it.  Error.  And the volume won&#8217;t unmount until Finder is relaunched.</i></p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t checked if that&#8217;s fixed in 10.5 since I&#8217;m not running it yet.</p>
<p>And the new locked, hidden .HFS+ Private Directory Data^M (yes, with a trailing Control-M) directory in the root of a mounted 10.5 disk image volume can cause trouble if you copy the top-level directory (e.g. by Option-click dragging its Desktop icon somewhere, or Command-D to Duplicate it if that works again).  I discovered that new-in-10.5 directory when its locked state was keeping Trash from being emptied.  Also noticed the new .fseventsd directory but since its unlocked it&#8217;s not causing problems like the other one can.</p>
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		<title>By: ssp</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7576</link>
		<dc:creator>ssp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 01:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7576</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d suspect that it&#039;s a different problem as well, but the Finder being the piece of wonderful programming that it is could just be bad at delivering the news. So checking for open files might be a first step towards getting an idea about the problem, or at least excluding one cause for it.

Another thing to do might be trying to use the umount command and see whether it works or why it fails.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d suspect that it&#8217;s a different problem as well, but the Finder being the piece of wonderful programming that it is could just be bad at delivering the news. So checking for open files might be a first step towards getting an idea about the problem, or at least excluding one cause for it.</p>
<p>Another thing to do might be trying to use the umount command and see whether it works or why it fails.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7575</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7575</guid>
		<description>Andrew: Thanks for confirming that I&#039;m not alone.

ssp: I am aware of the use of lsof to identify which application still has open files on the volume. But in this case there is no message that OS X can&#039;t eject because some files are still in use. So it&#039;s a different problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew: Thanks for confirming that I&#8217;m not alone.</p>
<p>ssp: I am aware of the use of lsof to identify which application still has open files on the volume. But in this case there is no message that OS X can&#8217;t eject because some files are still in use. So it&#8217;s a different problem.</p>
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		<title>By: ssp</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7573</link>
		<dc:creator>ssp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7573</guid>
		<description>I have been lucky with disk images so far. My worst problem with them is that sometimes they won&#039;t mount until the next restart for unknown reasons (also seen in X.5 already).

I only know unmounting problems from files still being open on the volume (usually coming with an unhelpful Finder error message). When you&#039;re having this problem it might be interesting to run something like &#039;sudo lsof &#124; grep volume&#039; where volume is the name of the mounted disk image to see whether that could be the cause.

As for the Finder sidebar. Of course it&#039;s an unreliable POS. But we don&#039;t expect anything else, do we? Yesterday it managed to display two different icons for two external volumes but selecting either of them would show the same volume in the window. Argh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been lucky with disk images so far. My worst problem with them is that sometimes they won&#8217;t mount until the next restart for unknown reasons (also seen in X.5 already).</p>
<p>I only know unmounting problems from files still being open on the volume (usually coming with an unhelpful Finder error message). When you&#8217;re having this problem it might be interesting to run something like &#8216;sudo lsof | grep volume&#8217; where volume is the name of the mounted disk image to see whether that could be the cause.</p>
<p>As for the Finder sidebar. Of course it&#8217;s an unreliable POS. But we don&#8217;t expect anything else, do we? Yesterday it managed to display two different icons for two external volumes but selecting either of them would show the same volume in the window. Argh!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Aitken</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7572</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Aitken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7572</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve experienced this a few times in Tiger, and also in Leopard. So it&#039;s not just you Pierre!

I usually experience it when I have lots of images mounted at once - like when I&#039;m installing a lot of software on a new machine. What I find unusual is that some of the images would unmount, but others would remain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve experienced this a few times in Tiger, and also in Leopard. So it&#8217;s not just you Pierre!</p>
<p>I usually experience it when I have lots of images mounted at once &#8211; like when I&#8217;m installing a lot of software on a new machine. What I find unusual is that some of the images would unmount, but others would remain.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7569</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7569</guid>
		<description>Well, all I can say is that it happens to me, and not just once in a blue moon! I click on the Eject button, and the icon does not go away, or it goes away in the Sidebar and not in the main area of the window, or the other way around. Flaky.

As for the terminology and the enduring drag-to-trash shortcut, well, obviously no one has come up with anything better yet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, all I can say is that it happens to me, and not just once in a blue moon! I click on the Eject button, and the icon does not go away, or it goes away in the Sidebar and not in the main area of the window, or the other way around. Flaky.</p>
<p>As for the terminology and the enduring drag-to-trash shortcut, well, obviously no one has come up with anything better yet!</p>
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		<title>By: danridley</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/comment-page-1/#comment-7566</link>
		<dc:creator>danridley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 23:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/11/08/mac-os-x-105-leopard-ejecting-disk-images-still-a-hit-or-miss-proposition/#comment-7566</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never seen this either, and it seems like I would -- I&#039;m a hot-new-software junkie and download lots of disk images. Once in a while an installer will leave something open, but Finder has always told me that files were in use; I&#039;ve never seen flakiness in the unmount/eject process itself.

(I do object to their ongoing use of the term &quot;eject&quot; for disk images, but I digress.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never seen this either, and it seems like I would &#8212; I&#8217;m a hot-new-software junkie and download lots of disk images. Once in a while an installer will leave something open, but Finder has always told me that files were in use; I&#8217;ve never seen flakiness in the unmount/eject process itself.</p>
<p>(I do object to their ongoing use of the term &#8220;eject&#8221; for disk images, but I digress.)</p>
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