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	<title>Comments on: Word 2004: A simple copy-paste is enough to throw it off</title>
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	<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/</link>
	<description>Notes from an unfinished world…</description>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7225</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7225</guid>
		<description>I know Word has some wildcard support, but it&#039;s pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.

As for my mind, it way past the boggled stage. I honestly do not see any signs that things will ever be any different. I am willing to bet that, in 10 years time, Word will still have the same bugs and the same flaws, and will still be just as slow on tomorrow&#039;s hardware as it is on today&#039;s hardware. I simply do not think that the MacBU developers have the expertise and motivation to do anything about it. And I seriously doubt that this will ever change. I also cannot help but notice that this allegedly top team of Mac developers is not really known for anything but their work for MS. If MS is indeed able to attract top Mac developers, how come we never heard of them on the Mac web before they joined MS? Where are the outstanding shareware or freeware products that they developed for the Mac platform before they joined MS?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know Word has some wildcard support, but it&#8217;s pretty much useless as far as I am concerned.</p>
<p>As for my mind, it way past the boggled stage. I honestly do not see any signs that things will ever be any different. I am willing to bet that, in 10 years time, Word will still have the same bugs and the same flaws, and will still be just as slow on tomorrow&#8217;s hardware as it is on today&#8217;s hardware. I simply do not think that the MacBU developers have the expertise and motivation to do anything about it. And I seriously doubt that this will ever change. I also cannot help but notice that this allegedly top team of Mac developers is not really known for anything but their work for MS. If MS is indeed able to attract top Mac developers, how come we never heard of them on the Mac web before they joined MS? Where are the outstanding shareware or freeware products that they developed for the Mac platform before they joined MS?</p>
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		<title>By: Arden</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7223</link>
		<dc:creator>Arden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7223</guid>
		<description>Well, Word &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; have limited wildcard support, but it certainly doesn&#039;t hold a candle anywhere &lt;i&gt;near&lt;/i&gt; grep.

Doesn&#039;t it just boggle your mind how the largest Mac developer team outside of Apple also makes some of the worst Mac software?  Even with everything Rick Schaut told me about their process and what they were planning for the future at Macworld, it still doesn&#039;t excuse them from all the inequities you find between Office and the rest of the system.  There are times when it&#039;s a good thing to roll your own technique, and times when it&#039;s a bad one... MacBU doesn&#039;t seem to care which is which.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Word <i>does</i> have limited wildcard support, but it certainly doesn&#8217;t hold a candle anywhere <i>near</i> grep.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t it just boggle your mind how the largest Mac developer team outside of Apple also makes some of the worst Mac software?  Even with everything Rick Schaut told me about their process and what they were planning for the future at Macworld, it still doesn&#8217;t excuse them from all the inequities you find between Office and the rest of the system.  There are times when it&#8217;s a good thing to roll your own technique, and times when it&#8217;s a bad one&#8230; MacBU doesn&#8217;t seem to care which is which.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7217</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7217</guid>
		<description>Another problem is that Word doesn&#039;t support regular expressions, so really powerful searches that would automate a good portion of the document formatting process are not possible. (InDesign now has GREP support, and it&#039;s a great addition. That&#039;s the kind of progress that helps me not completely lose faith in Adobe, unlike Microsoft.)

Add to this the fact that Microsoft Word is one of the few Mac OS X applications that crashes on a regular basis (in my experience) and you have, well, a very frustrating work experience on most days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another problem is that Word doesn&#8217;t support regular expressions, so really powerful searches that would automate a good portion of the document formatting process are not possible. (InDesign now has GREP support, and it&#8217;s a great addition. That&#8217;s the kind of progress that helps me not completely lose faith in Adobe, unlike Microsoft.)</p>
<p>Add to this the fact that Microsoft Word is one of the few Mac OS X applications that crashes on a regular basis (in my experience) and you have, well, a very frustrating work experience on most days.</p>
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		<title>By: hugmup</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7216</link>
		<dc:creator>hugmup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7216</guid>
		<description>You have a very good point. So far as I can tell, character styles don&#039;t survive CTR-SPACE, so I don&#039;t see any reason for them to exist.

There are problems that remain after cleaning a document as I described, but usually I can fix them by quickly glancing over the document and then doing global searches and replaces to fix them after I&#039;ve cleaned the document.

The problem is that the &quot;writer&quot; doesn&#039;t know how to write his own language and is not trained in the word processor, Microsoft Word compounds the problem by encouraging stupid-user tricks and accommodating linguistic abominations, and we&#039;re left to clean up the mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a very good point. So far as I can tell, character styles don&#8217;t survive CTR-SPACE, so I don&#8217;t see any reason for them to exist.</p>
<p>There are problems that remain after cleaning a document as I described, but usually I can fix them by quickly glancing over the document and then doing global searches and replaces to fix them after I&#8217;ve cleaned the document.</p>
<p>The problem is that the &#8220;writer&#8221; doesn&#8217;t know how to write his own language and is not trained in the word processor, Microsoft Word compounds the problem by encouraging stupid-user tricks and accommodating linguistic abominations, and we&#8217;re left to clean up the mess.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7214</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7214</guid>
		<description>There are cases when I can do as you describe, but there are also cases where it is either impractical or impossible. Keep in mind that, in French, we use a number of inline formatting options such as superscript, italics, etc. that are either optional or not used in English. Since Word users almost never use character styles for those formatting options and they are all done with manual formatting, run the risk of being removed through a &quot;cleaning-up&quot; phase, and there are situations where I cannot afford to take that risk. If I strip the manual formatting, then I have to constantly refer to the original (untouched) document to see if I have removed anything that needs to be restored. 

In truth, whenever I do not have to blindly follow the formatting of the original Word document I have to work on, I simply start a new blank document with my own style sheet, either in Word or in Pages, and rebuild everything from scratch. I find that, even after &quot;cleaning up&quot; existing Word documents using procedures such as the ones you describe, often times there are still problems.

It&#039;s just so sad that it has come to this. And it really is sickening to hear &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.msdn.com/macmojo/archive/2007/07/06/wait-wait-i-m-here.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Microsoft executives&lt;/a&gt; blab about how great their products are and how they have a fantastic team of Mac developers, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are cases when I can do as you describe, but there are also cases where it is either impractical or impossible. Keep in mind that, in French, we use a number of inline formatting options such as superscript, italics, etc. that are either optional or not used in English. Since Word users almost never use character styles for those formatting options and they are all done with manual formatting, run the risk of being removed through a &#8220;cleaning-up&#8221; phase, and there are situations where I cannot afford to take that risk. If I strip the manual formatting, then I have to constantly refer to the original (untouched) document to see if I have removed anything that needs to be restored. </p>
<p>In truth, whenever I do not have to blindly follow the formatting of the original Word document I have to work on, I simply start a new blank document with my own style sheet, either in Word or in Pages, and rebuild everything from scratch. I find that, even after &#8220;cleaning up&#8221; existing Word documents using procedures such as the ones you describe, often times there are still problems.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just so sad that it has come to this. And it really is sickening to hear <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/macmojo/archive/2007/07/06/wait-wait-i-m-here.aspx" rel="nofollow">Microsoft executives</a> blab about how great their products are and how they have a fantastic team of Mac developers, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: hugmup</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7213</link>
		<dc:creator>hugmup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7213</guid>
		<description>Word processors are the only major applications in which no one is trained, because writers are deprecated and everyone thinks they are a writer.

Even the web arose out of a fallacy. The original idea for hyperlinks was that a person could follow the links about a topic and effectively create and read a virtual document about a topic that was not the main topic of any of the documents they jumped through. The idea behind collaborative writing tools is that writers are interchangeable. In my case, the result bounces back from the client and they give it to me to rewrite. 

 Microsoft is dumming down Word, as you&#039;ve noticed; each version accommodates more stupid-user tricks than the one befor. It won&#039;t be long before it ceases to be a professional writing tool. A long-standing example is the bullet button on the tool bar, which applies a bullet to the paragraph instead of applying the List Bullet style, making it impossible to enforce consistency on the formatting of bulleted paragraphs, which can be a serious headache in a large document with several contributors. Word has tons of bugs and stupid inconsistencies, but this time it is the untrained user&#039;s fault.

The way I remedy this is to fix the document before editing it or cutting and pasting from it. I merge in my Normal style sheet, do global searches and replaces to remove manual page breaks and white space before line breaks, paragraph marks, and tabs, remove all empty paragraphs, and reduce double spaces to single spaces. Then I do CMD-OPT-Q and CTRL-SPACE to remove all idiosyncratic formatting. This takes less time to do than to describe, and it removes the &quot;writer&#039;s&quot; inconsistencies from the formatting. Then I begin rewriting the document.

Then the cut and paste works fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Word processors are the only major applications in which no one is trained, because writers are deprecated and everyone thinks they are a writer.</p>
<p>Even the web arose out of a fallacy. The original idea for hyperlinks was that a person could follow the links about a topic and effectively create and read a virtual document about a topic that was not the main topic of any of the documents they jumped through. The idea behind collaborative writing tools is that writers are interchangeable. In my case, the result bounces back from the client and they give it to me to rewrite. </p>
<p> Microsoft is dumming down Word, as you&#8217;ve noticed; each version accommodates more stupid-user tricks than the one befor. It won&#8217;t be long before it ceases to be a professional writing tool. A long-standing example is the bullet button on the tool bar, which applies a bullet to the paragraph instead of applying the List Bullet style, making it impossible to enforce consistency on the formatting of bulleted paragraphs, which can be a serious headache in a large document with several contributors. Word has tons of bugs and stupid inconsistencies, but this time it is the untrained user&#8217;s fault.</p>
<p>The way I remedy this is to fix the document before editing it or cutting and pasting from it. I merge in my Normal style sheet, do global searches and replaces to remove manual page breaks and white space before line breaks, paragraph marks, and tabs, remove all empty paragraphs, and reduce double spaces to single spaces. Then I do CMD-OPT-Q and CTRL-SPACE to remove all idiosyncratic formatting. This takes less time to do than to describe, and it removes the &#8220;writer&#8217;s&#8221; inconsistencies from the formatting. Then I begin rewriting the document.</p>
<p>Then the cut and paste works fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7212</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7212</guid>
		<description>Like I said, when my clients send me Word files to work on, I have little choice but to use Word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said, when my clients send me Word files to work on, I have little choice but to use Word.</p>
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		<title>By: Znatok</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/comment-page-1/#comment-7211</link>
		<dc:creator>Znatok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/12/word-2004-a-simple-copy-paste-is-enough-to-throw-it-off/#comment-7211</guid>
		<description>Share your pain. 
That&#039;s one of the the reason I started to use Textedit, really.

Its simple interface remind me the old time ClarisWorks.
And it works surprizingly well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Share your pain.<br />
That&#8217;s one of the the reason I started to use Textedit, really.</p>
<p>Its simple interface remind me the old time ClarisWorks.<br />
And it works surprizingly well.</p>
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