Comments on: Mac OS X 10.4.10: Damage in Pages and BBEdit http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/ Notes from an unfinished world… Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:29:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7185 Pierre Igot Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:34:55 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7185 I am a SuperDuper! user too, although I do not use it to back up my entire startup volume. I only backup the user folders on the startup volume, and then all my documents, which are on another partition. I can see the idea of having a daily backup of your entire startup volume, but you still need to manually keep track of what you've done between the time of the last backup and the time you realize that your updated system has a problem. So it's not a perfect solution either. Of course, an "Archive and Install" system replacement also has the disadvantage of breaking SD!'s automatic backup schedule. So that's a bit of a pain. Andrew: It's true that I probably should have tried to see if Pages and BBEdit were still working properly from within another user account. I'll try to remember the next time something like this happens… which of course I hope will not be for another few years! I am a SuperDuper! user too, although I do not use it to back up my entire startup volume. I only backup the user folders on the startup volume, and then all my documents, which are on another partition. I can see the idea of having a daily backup of your entire startup volume, but you still need to manually keep track of what you’ve done between the time of the last backup and the time you realize that your updated system has a problem. So it’s not a perfect solution either.

Of course, an “Archive and Install” system replacement also has the disadvantage of breaking SD!’s automatic backup schedule. So that’s a bit of a pain.

Andrew: It’s true that I probably should have tried to see if Pages and BBEdit were still working properly from within another user account. I’ll try to remember the next time something like this happens… which of course I hope will not be for another few years!

]]> By: Andrew Aitken http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7184 Andrew Aitken Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:48:17 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7184 Sounds pretty bad - I hate it when things go wrong like that, especially after you'd just been bragging about the stability! I left Apple a few months ago, so I'm not on the front lines with any latest fixes for 10.4.10, and those log lines don't give much detail about the cause of the problem - but I can offer some advice, just like everyone else! I always found it best to try things in a different user account before going onto an archive and install. You'd be surprised how a seemingly unrelated preference or cache file could cause problems. I've seen terminal preferences affect Adobe applications, and all sorts of other weird things... If it works in a new user, you've narrowed it down to something in your home folder (bar a few items in /Library/Caches) - If it still doesn't work, then it's almost certainly system related and archive and install is probably going to be quicker and more reliable than narrowing down the precise cause of the fault. Oh, historically I've always used the combo updates even for point upgrades, just to cover my back with customers. I've started just using software update myself now. Sounds pretty bad – I hate it when things go wrong like that, especially after you’d just been bragging about the stability!

I left Apple a few months ago, so I’m not on the front lines with any latest fixes for 10.4.10, and those log lines don’t give much detail about the cause of the problem – but I can offer some advice, just like everyone else!

I always found it best to try things in a different user account before going onto an archive and install. You’d be surprised how a seemingly unrelated preference or cache file could cause problems. I’ve seen terminal preferences affect Adobe applications, and all sorts of other weird things… If it works in a new user, you’ve narrowed it down to something in your home folder (bar a few items in /Library/Caches) – If it still doesn’t work, then it’s almost certainly system related and archive and install is probably going to be quicker and more reliable than narrowing down the precise cause of the fault.

Oh, historically I’ve always used the combo updates even for point upgrades, just to cover my back with customers. I’ve started just using software update myself now.

]]> By: swissfondue http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7183 swissfondue Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:50:44 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7183 My solution isi to create a bootable mirror backup of my HD onto an external drive with Superduper! Then, all I need to do is copy this back to the HD. This way I keep all my preference settings, apps, serial numbers etc. and save a lot of time in case of update related issues. My solution isi to create a bootable mirror backup of my HD onto an external drive with Superduper!
Then, all I need to do is copy this back to the HD. This way I keep all my preference settings, apps, serial numbers etc. and save a lot of time in case of update related issues.

]]> By: Daniel A. Shockley http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7182 Daniel A. Shockley Tue, 03 Jul 2007 04:21:49 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7182 I run automated backups every night using SuperDuper, cloning the entire disk to an external drive. SD only updates what has changed, so it is quick, and it happens at 3:30 AM. I then apply System Updates and check things out, knowing that if something seems wrong, I can just do a copy the other way by booting off the external drive, as long as I do that before the next backup runs, and first grabbing my updated email folder (or any other new data files). This is also reassuring for potential data loss from drive failures, damage, theft, etc. External drives are cheap, and so is SuperDuper (or whatever you choose to use). An automated backup routine is worth at least 10 times what it costs in lost energy, anxiety, and especially lost information. I highly recommend it to everyone. I run automated backups every night using SuperDuper, cloning the entire disk to an external drive. SD only updates what has changed, so it is quick, and it happens at 3:30 AM.

I then apply System Updates and check things out, knowing that if something seems wrong, I can just do a copy the other way by booting off the external drive, as long as I do that before the next backup runs, and first grabbing my updated email folder (or any other new data files). This is also reassuring for potential data loss from drive failures, damage, theft, etc.

External drives are cheap, and so is SuperDuper (or whatever you choose to use). An automated backup routine is worth at least 10 times what it costs in lost energy, anxiety, and especially lost information. I highly recommend it to everyone.

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7181 Pierre Igot Tue, 03 Jul 2007 01:53:38 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7181 won: I forgot to mention that I did try re-applying the combo update a second time. It didn't help. Thanks for the additional information and tips. won: I forgot to mention that I did try re-applying the combo update a second time. It didn’t help.

Thanks for the additional information and tips.

]]> By: won http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7180 won Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:49:02 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7180 You can also try reinstalling the combo updater a second time. <a href="http://applejack.sourceforge.net/" rel="nofollow">AppleJack</a> can also be useful when weirdness strikes. For a deep cleanse that eliminates built-up grime, type <code>applejack AUTO restart</code> at single user startup (Command-s at reboot) after it's installed. Anything that avoids the effort of a full reinstall is worth it for me (uh...anything free, that is :-). You can also try reinstalling the combo updater a second time.

AppleJack can also be useful when weirdness strikes. For a deep cleanse that eliminates built-up grime, type applejack AUTO restart at single user startup (Command-s at reboot) after it’s installed.

Anything that avoids the effort of a full reinstall is worth it for me (uh…anything free, that is :-).

]]> By: spectralhuman http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7179 spectralhuman Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:33:01 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7179 as an independant tech support guy, I update hundreds of macs... I have never had a problem installing an update. I have worked out this procedure over several years and it hasn't failed me yet. step 1. reboot step 2. repair permissions step 3. run maintenance scripts using MainMenu (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17111) step 4. clean user cache using MainMenu step 5. Run diskwarrior step 6. Install update using combo updater. There are some other apps you can use to run maint. scripts and clean caches... onyx, cocktail, etc... I think the most important things to do are first reboot, repair permissions and run maint. scripts... Mac OS X is incredibly stable, but computers are "inherently unstable systems"™ and need to be rebooted at the very least before updates... as an independant tech support guy, I update hundreds of macs… I have never had a problem installing an update. I have worked out this procedure over several years and it hasn’t failed me yet.

step 1. reboot

step 2. repair permissions

step 3. run maintenance scripts using MainMenu (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17111)

step 4. clean user cache using MainMenu

step 5. Run diskwarrior

step 6. Install update using combo updater.

There are some other apps you can use to run maint. scripts and clean caches… onyx, cocktail, etc…

I think the most important things to do are first reboot, repair permissions and run maint. scripts…

Mac OS X is incredibly stable, but computers are “inherently unstable systems”™ and need to be rebooted at the very least before updates…

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7178 Pierre Igot Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:40:26 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7178 I have always used combo updaters, so I am not sure why all of a sudden it would have become a problem. Unfortunately, due to bandwidth limitations, I tend to download stand-alone updaters in a location other than my home office, especially when they are very large, so I always end up using a less-travelled route anyway. I also need to keep a local copy of the updater (for myself and for other people), so it makes much more sense to have the combo updater that will work with any version of 10.4. I have always used combo updaters, so I am not sure why all of a sudden it would have become a problem. Unfortunately, due to bandwidth limitations, I tend to download stand-alone updaters in a location other than my home office, especially when they are very large, so I always end up using a less-travelled route anyway. I also need to keep a local copy of the updater (for myself and for other people), so it makes much more sense to have the combo updater that will work with any version of 10.4.

]]> By: AlanY http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/comment-page-1/#comment-7177 AlanY Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:34:07 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/07/02/mac-os-x-10410-damage-in-pages-and-bbedit/#comment-7177 Wow, that sounds like a terrible experience. I would strongly suggest not applying the combined update when you don't need to. Even though it seems to make intuitive sense, the safer route with software is usually to go with the most well-travelled path, because that's the path that has been most heavily tested. The majority of people will be using the regular updater, and so that will have the heaviest coverage from a testing perspective. It probably won't make any difference for files that are part of the updates, but for configuration/plist file updates, I can see a lot of complexity that gets introduced in the combined updater that isn't present in the regular updater. That's probably what went wrong for you. Fortunately, I haven't had problems with 10.4.10, except for the odd little quirk that Apple Remote Desktop seems to list servers running 10.4.10 as running 10.4.9. Wow, that sounds like a terrible experience.

I would strongly suggest not applying the combined update when you don’t need to. Even though it seems to make intuitive sense, the safer route with software is usually to go with the most well-travelled path, because that’s the path that has been most heavily tested. The majority of people will be using the regular updater, and so that will have the heaviest coverage from a testing perspective. It probably won’t make any difference for files that are part of the updates, but for configuration/plist file updates, I can see a lot of complexity that gets introduced in the combined updater that isn’t present in the regular updater. That’s probably what went wrong for you.

Fortunately, I haven’t had problems with 10.4.10, except for the odd little quirk that Apple Remote Desktop seems to list servers running 10.4.10 as running 10.4.9.

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