Comments on: Mail 2.0: What happens while sending messages http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/ Notes from an unfinished world… Mon, 06 Feb 2012 13:29:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: terip http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6949 terip Tue, 01 May 2007 19:21:59 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6949 Does anyone have any ideas on why mac mail stalls when checking pop accounts? I work for a small ISP. We've had several issues with Mac Mail and this seems to be the latest. There's always mail out on the mail server. Mail looks like it is checking mail but nothing comes through. Customers can telnet to the mail server on port 110 (these are POP accounts). Would appreciate any help I could get on this one. Does anyone have any ideas on why mac mail stalls when checking pop accounts? I work for a small ISP. We’ve had several issues with Mac Mail and this seems to be the latest. There’s always mail out on the mail server. Mail looks like it is checking mail but nothing comes through. Customers can telnet to the mail server on port 110 (these are POP accounts). Would appreciate any help I could get on this one.

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6691 Pierre Igot Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:38:16 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6691 npiaseck: It's probably because you have a fast Internet connection and you don't send e-mails with large attachments. The process is only really noticeable when sending large messages with a slower connection, where the process takes a while. Of course, it's possible that, with IMAP, things are somewhat different (although messages still need to be sent through an SMTP server). Given that I have never had the luxury of a fast Internet connection, I don't have much experience with IMAP. npiaseck: It’s probably because you have a fast Internet connection and you don’t send e-mails with large attachments. The process is only really noticeable when sending large messages with a slower connection, where the process takes a while.

Of course, it’s possible that, with IMAP, things are somewhat different (although messages still need to be sent through an SMTP server). Given that I have never had the luxury of a fast Internet connection, I don’t have much experience with IMAP.

]]> By: npiaseck http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6690 npiaseck Fri, 02 Mar 2007 06:18:15 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6690 Huh. My Mail has never ever done the Sending ... Sent thing. The only way I know that something is sent is to listen for the swoosh sound, or to use that bizarre "Activity Viewer" in the Window menu. I wonder why? If something's just borked or if it's because I'm using IMAP instead of POP? Huh. My Mail has never ever done the Sending … Sent thing. The only way I know that something is sent is to listen for the swoosh sound, or to use that bizarre “Activity Viewer” in the Window menu.

I wonder why? If something’s just borked or if it’s because I’m using IMAP instead of POP?

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6685 Pierre Igot Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:38:45 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6685 morgant: The issue with the SMTP servers is an important, but separate one, which I have discussed elsewhere. I too feel that this dialog is pretty much useless and very misleading (leading users to think they can send mail from just about any SMTP server, when it's obviously not true). It definitely adds to the poor quality of the mail sending experience in Mail. oxypete2: There are numerous issues with Spotlight in Mac OS X 10.4. This is just one of them. We can only hope that things are better in 10.5—although I wouldn't raise my hopes too high. morgant: The issue with the SMTP servers is an important, but separate one, which I have discussed elsewhere. I too feel that this dialog is pretty much useless and very misleading (leading users to think they can send mail from just about any SMTP server, when it’s obviously not true). It definitely adds to the poor quality of the mail sending experience in Mail.

oxypete2: There are numerous issues with Spotlight in Mac OS X 10.4. This is just one of them. We can only hope that things are better in 10.5—although I wouldn’t raise my hopes too high.

]]> By: Hawk Wings » Blog Archive » Betalogue savages Mail’s sending silliness http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6684 Hawk Wings » Blog Archive » Betalogue savages Mail’s sending silliness Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:33:34 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6684 [...] Over at Betalogue, Pierre Igot, who has an eagle-eye for flaws in Apple’s user interface design, unloads on the behaviour of Mail’s Sent mail folder . [...] [...] Over at Betalogue, Pierre Igot, who has an eagle-eye for flaws in Apple’s user interface design, unloads on the behaviour of Mail’s Sent mail folder . [...]

]]> By: hawkman http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6678 hawkman Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:37:21 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6678 I completely agree. The whole sending/sent/magical outbox thing makes me cry. Particularly now, when I have to rely on flaky, fails-more-often-than-it-works campus wifi. I completely agree. The whole sending/sent/magical outbox thing makes me cry. Particularly now, when I have to rely on flaky, fails-more-often-than-it-works campus wifi.

]]> By: oxypete2 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6675 oxypete2 Thu, 01 Mar 2007 02:27:12 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6675 My beef with Mail concerns the junk mail box. Yesterday after removing/deleting all junk mail AND emptying mail's trash, I happened to do a wide search - searching for the term "stock" in all messages in all mailboxes. The result box included numerous messaged that were tagged by mail as junk. But my junk mail box was empty. I never figured out where those messages were. Clicking on the "show in mailbox" function didn't help - Mail would switch over with the title of the frame reading "No mailbox selected." My beef with Mail concerns the junk mail box. Yesterday after removing/deleting all junk mail AND emptying mail’s trash, I happened to do a wide search – searching for the term “stock” in all messages in all mailboxes. The result box included numerous messaged that were tagged by mail as junk. But my junk mail box was empty. I never figured out where those messages were. Clicking on the “show in mailbox” function didn’t help – Mail would switch over with the title of the frame reading “No mailbox selected.”

]]> By: vincitveritas http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6674 vincitveritas Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:56:52 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6674 Actually, if I'm not mistaken, clicking the "Get New Mail" button will actually send any messages that happen to be waiting in the "Outbox." I know, not terribly intuitive, but it is similar to functionality of similar buttons in other e-mail clients, particularly Entourage. Actually, if I’m not mistaken, clicking the “Get New Mail” button will actually send any messages that happen to be waiting in the “Outbox.” I know, not terribly intuitive, but it is similar to functionality of similar buttons in other e-mail clients, particularly Entourage.

]]> By: morgant http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6673 morgant Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:37:55 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6673 If you have multiple SMTP servers Mail will open up the mail message with the error with the option of sending from another server (regardless of what the error is). What's up with that? The SMTP protocol has some pretty specific error codes (just like HTTP, etc.) that are returned and Mail <i>really</i> should be able to act based upon the code returned. I believe that the Outbox was originally intended for Mail's "Offline" mode, but the it's not even there by default when launching Mail in said mode. The fact that they really didn't have a contingency plan better than dumping it into a mailbox that normally is hidden is pretty sad. Regarding having to double-click on the message in the Outbox to try to send it again, you'd think they could have reused the warning (exclamation mark in a triangle) that they use next to the mailbox/Inbox names when they encounter an error to indicate that an individual message in your outbox had a sending error. If you have multiple SMTP servers Mail will open up the mail message with the error with the option of sending from another server (regardless of what the error is). What’s up with that? The SMTP protocol has some pretty specific error codes (just like HTTP, etc.) that are returned and Mail really should be able to act based upon the code returned.

I believe that the Outbox was originally intended for Mail’s “Offline” mode, but the it’s not even there by default when launching Mail in said mode. The fact that they really didn’t have a contingency plan better than dumping it into a mailbox that normally is hidden is pretty sad.

Regarding having to double-click on the message in the Outbox to try to send it again, you’d think they could have reused the warning (exclamation mark in a triangle) that they use next to the mailbox/Inbox names when they encounter an error to indicate that an individual message in your outbox had a sending error.

]]> By: Pierre Igot http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6653 Pierre Igot Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:17:39 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6653 Yes, Mail is critically flawed when it comes to handling such situations. First of all, it should never allow you to send 15 MB messages without at least a warning about the size. Mail is hardly alone in that respect, but that's no excuse. It's irresponsible for software developers to allow their users to misuse e-mail software like this without any kind of warning. You cannot blame the users when there are so few indicators of file size in e-mail clients to begin with. I have already spent many hours of trouble-shooting time for various persons in order to solve problems created on their systems by such situations. (If I were cynical, I would say that software developers should continue to be so irresponsible, because this helps ensure that there's always going to be work for professional trouble-shooters like me.) As for what happens after that, yes, again, Mail's entire queuing process for sending messages is flawed. The complete lack of feedback is inexcusable. I certainly don't want to advocate more modal dialog boxes in our interfaces, but this is the extreme opposite, and it's just as bad from a user's point of view. Yes, Mail is critically flawed when it comes to handling such situations.

First of all, it should never allow you to send 15 MB messages without at least a warning about the size. Mail is hardly alone in that respect, but that’s no excuse. It’s irresponsible for software developers to allow their users to misuse e-mail software like this without any kind of warning. You cannot blame the users when there are so few indicators of file size in e-mail clients to begin with.

I have already spent many hours of trouble-shooting time for various persons in order to solve problems created on their systems by such situations. (If I were cynical, I would say that software developers should continue to be so irresponsible, because this helps ensure that there’s always going to be work for professional trouble-shooters like me.)

As for what happens after that, yes, again, Mail’s entire queuing process for sending messages is flawed. The complete lack of feedback is inexcusable. I certainly don’t want to advocate more modal dialog boxes in our interfaces, but this is the extreme opposite, and it’s just as bad from a user’s point of view.

]]> By: henryn http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6652 henryn Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:03:35 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6652 It just happens that my wife ran up on the rocks with Mail 2.0 on her just updated system: She inadvertently tried to send a 15MB file attachment, which the SMTP server obviously rejected... but there was NO feedback from Mail, the outgoing message just stuck in the Outbox. Looming deadline... near-panic. Mail should tell users _something_ about what's going on in such cases. Oh, yes, Mail became impossible to use, virtually locked-up with the message stuck in the outbox, so she couldn't send an email to her intended recipient explaining the situation. It just happens that my wife ran up on the rocks with Mail 2.0 on her just updated system: She inadvertently tried to send a 15MB file attachment, which the SMTP server obviously rejected… but there was NO feedback from Mail, the outgoing message just stuck in the Outbox. Looming deadline… near-panic. Mail should tell users _something_ about what’s going on in such cases. Oh, yes, Mail became impossible to use, virtually locked-up with the message stuck in the outbox, so she couldn’t send an email to her intended recipient explaining the situation.

]]> By: Michael Tsai - Blog - Mail’s “Sending…” Source http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/comment-page-1/#comment-6636 Michael Tsai - Blog - Mail’s “Sending…” Source Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:04:46 +0000 http://www.betalogue.com/2007/02/21/mail-20-what-happens-while-sending-messages/#comment-6636 [...] Pierre Igot: [...] [...] Pierre Igot: [...]

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