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	<title>Comments on: Mail 2.0 and Spell Catcher X</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/</link>
	<description>Notes from an unfinished world…</description>
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		<title>By: Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Betalogue on text replacement in Mail.app</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-3854</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Betalogue on text replacement in Mail.app</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2006 13:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-3854</guid>
		<description>[...] So when I discovered some strange behaviour in Mail.app that throws Spell Catcher X off balance, I blogged the solution that I found on Betalogue . (If you use Mail.app and Spell Catcher X you should know about this). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So when I discovered some strange behaviour in Mail.app that throws Spell Catcher X off balance, I blogged the solution that I found on Betalogue . (If you use Mail.app and Spell Catcher X you should know about this). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Spell Catcher X annoyance in Mail.app</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-3519</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawk Wings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Spell Catcher X annoyance in Mail.app</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-3519</guid>
		<description>[...] [Via Pierre Igot&#8217;s Betalogue]  Technorati Tags: Apple Mail, Mail.app [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [Via Pierre Igot&#8217;s Betalogue]  Technorati Tags: Apple Mail, Mail.app [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Gross</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-2307</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m quite sure that the &quot;extra carriage return&quot; problem isn&#039;t Spell Catcher X&#039;s doing at all.

There are a number of posts on Apple&#039;s discussion boards that detail a number of line-ending and other editing problems with the message composition view (an editable WebView).

Take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@890.rtaQaRrdR7s.0@.68ae60f5&quot; title=&quot;this one&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt; for starters.

Scary.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m quite sure that the &#8220;extra carriage return&#8221; problem isn&#8217;t Spell Catcher X&#8217;s doing at all.</p>
<p>There are a number of posts on Apple&#8217;s discussion boards that detail a number of line-ending and other editing problems with the message composition view (an editable WebView).</p>
<p>Take a look at <a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@890.rtaQaRrdR7s.0@.68ae60f5" title="this one">this one</a> for starters.</p>
<p>Scary.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>Yikes. 

I never meant to imply that the problem was with Spell Catcher. It&#039;s just that Spell Catcher is an application that &lt;strong&gt;reveals&lt;/strong&gt; this problem in Mail. I haven&#039;t experienced Mail adding spurious carriage returns when I am not using Spell Catcher. So in effect it &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; a problem between Mail and SCX, even though I agree with you that SCX is not to blame :). 

I too am still noticing a number of weird problems when composing a message in Mail. (There were tons more during the beta stage.) What is this &quot;editable WebView&quot; thing you are referring to? Are there other Mac OS X applications in Tiger that use the same &quot;engine&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yikes. </p>
<p>I never meant to imply that the problem was with Spell Catcher. It&#8217;s just that Spell Catcher is an application that <strong>reveals</strong> this problem in Mail. I haven&#8217;t experienced Mail adding spurious carriage returns when I am not using Spell Catcher. So in effect it <strong>is</strong> a problem between Mail and SCX, even though I agree with you that SCX is not to blame :). </p>
<p>I too am still noticing a number of weird problems when composing a message in Mail. (There were tons more during the beta stage.) What is this &#8220;editable WebView&#8221; thing you are referring to? Are there other Mac OS X applications in Tiger that use the same &#8220;engine&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Igot</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre Igot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>Mail rendering a return as a space… Mmmm, not surprised that it&#039;s turning SCX&#039;s spaces into returns, then :).

Thanks for exploring this further and filing some bug reports… Yours probably have more clout than mine!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mail rendering a return as a space… Mmmm, not surprised that it&#8217;s turning SCX&#8217;s spaces into returns, then :).</p>
<p>Thanks for exploring this further and filing some bug reports… Yours probably have more clout than mine!</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Gross</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-2327</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-2327</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve figured this out (the space/return thing). I&#039;d call it a bug in Mail (or editable WebView&#039;s in general). Sure hope Apple does as well.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rainmakerinc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=753&amp;pid=2972&amp;st=0&amp;#entry2972&quot; title=&quot;this post&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve figured this out (the space/return thing). I&#8217;d call it a bug in Mail (or editable WebView&#8217;s in general). Sure hope Apple does as well.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.rainmakerinc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=753&#038;pid=2972&#038;st=0&#entry2972" title="this post">this post</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Gross</title>
		<link>http://www.betalogue.com/2005/05/06/mail-20-and-spell-catcher-x/comment-page-1/#comment-2328</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Gross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=1503#comment-2328</guid>
		<description>Yep, something&#039;s seriously wrong with the way they are handling (at minimum) return characters.

Try this:

Turn on the Unicode Hex Input keyboard in International/Input Menu, activate it.

A quick tutorial on how it works: hold down option and type 4 hex digits to produce a character. Useful for Unicodes that are hard to find on a &quot;regular&quot; keyboard layout.

So, for example, option-0-0-4-1 will insert an uppercase &quot;A&quot; (41 hex).

Now we want to test what happens when inserting a return (0x000D) - option-0-0-0-D.

Try it in TextEdit. You get the expected return character.
Try it in a Mail message composition window. Whah? Looks like a space to me. Thing is, it&#039;s NOT a space. If you select that character and drag it to the Character Palette&#039;s Character Info image well, it&#039;s indeed a return.
BUT Mail is rendering it as a space.

Things are not right here…not sure how many things, but enough.

OK - editable WebViews. WebViews have been around since Safari was first introduced. It uses them (or some variant) to display web content, as do many other OS X apps. Before Tiger, these weren&#039;t editable - display only.

But in 10.4, these can be edited. It&#039;s not a trivial addition to WebView. It&#039;s a significant and complex one. Not too surprising it&#039;s got bugs, but we&#039;re running into some pretty blatant ones! Mail uses them in the message body of a compose window. I know that Safari uses them to implement support for contenteditable.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://walkah.net/node/84&quot; title=&quot;this blog&quot;&gt;this blog&lt;/a&gt;, specifically the last entry with the link to a demo.

Same exact thing happens in this contenteditable demo. So it&#039;s not just Mail. It&#039;s the underlying widget.

Sure hope it gets fixed soon! Off to file some radars shortly…
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, something&#8217;s seriously wrong with the way they are handling (at minimum) return characters.</p>
<p>Try this:</p>
<p>Turn on the Unicode Hex Input keyboard in International/Input Menu, activate it.</p>
<p>A quick tutorial on how it works: hold down option and type 4 hex digits to produce a character. Useful for Unicodes that are hard to find on a &#8220;regular&#8221; keyboard layout.</p>
<p>So, for example, option-0-0-4-1 will insert an uppercase &#8220;A&#8221; (41 hex).</p>
<p>Now we want to test what happens when inserting a return (0x000D) &#8211; option-0-0-0-D.</p>
<p>Try it in TextEdit. You get the expected return character.<br />
Try it in a Mail message composition window. Whah? Looks like a space to me. Thing is, it&#8217;s NOT a space. If you select that character and drag it to the Character Palette&#8217;s Character Info image well, it&#8217;s indeed a return.<br />
BUT Mail is rendering it as a space.</p>
<p>Things are not right here…not sure how many things, but enough.</p>
<p>OK &#8211; editable WebViews. WebViews have been around since Safari was first introduced. It uses them (or some variant) to display web content, as do many other OS X apps. Before Tiger, these weren&#8217;t editable &#8211; display only.</p>
<p>But in 10.4, these can be edited. It&#8217;s not a trivial addition to WebView. It&#8217;s a significant and complex one. Not too surprising it&#8217;s got bugs, but we&#8217;re running into some pretty blatant ones! Mail uses them in the message body of a compose window. I know that Safari uses them to implement support for contenteditable.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://walkah.net/node/84" title="this blog">this blog</a>, specifically the last entry with the link to a demo.</p>
<p>Same exact thing happens in this contenteditable demo. So it&#8217;s not just Mail. It&#8217;s the underlying widget.</p>
<p>Sure hope it gets fixed soon! Off to file some radars shortly…</p>
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